At the house group on 13th May. We looked at some of the post resurrection appearances of Jesus. We noted that there are differences but that this was to be expected given that different people are recalling the events.
I thought it was interesting that Paul's list of appearances included his own on the Damascus Road without making any distinction between his 'vision' and the other appearances that we see in the gospels and Acts. Worth noting that Paul's letter is probably the earliest recorded account we have of the post resurrection appearances.
Monday 25 May 2009
Sunday 10 May 2009
Colossians Remixed: Subverting the Empire
by Brian J. Walsh & Sylvia C. Keesmaat
Good fun, if occasionally quite hard work! You'd want to be a little versed in post-modernity to get the best out if it. I like the conclusions they come to but I'm not completely convinced they they can come to them from Colossians, still feels at time that we want to make the bible (or in this case Paul) agree with us rather than accept that maybe he got it wrong :-)
random quotes
Good fun, if occasionally quite hard work! You'd want to be a little versed in post-modernity to get the best out if it. I like the conclusions they come to but I'm not completely convinced they they can come to them from Colossians, still feels at time that we want to make the bible (or in this case Paul) agree with us rather than accept that maybe he got it wrong :-)
random quotes
... the danger of wanting a god, without being willing to allow this god to speak in a voice that is radically other to our voice, is that the god we end up with is like any other consumer product we take of the shelf (p34).
... a worldview is only as good as the praxis or way of life that it engenders (p113).
There can be no indubitable foundation of knowledge, no uninterpreted experience, no completely transparent reading of the world. (Miroslav Volf) (p122)
We can probably tell as much about the real spirituality and the real worldview of a people by looking at the cars they drive, the food they consume, the gadgets that fill their homes and the garbage they throw out as we can by listening to the songs they sing and the prayers they pray (199)
Monday 4 May 2009
Dealing with our differences
This final session looked in particular at the Bible and how we understand it and use it. In thinking about this we considered the following passage:
The passage says that scripture is 'useful', some of us felt that this was not a particularly strong word. It does not seem to preclude finding other things 'useful' in addition. Some of us felt that some Christians had put too much weight on this short passage and that a doctrine of infallibility was not really deducible from this passage. We noted that Paul in writing this is clearly not talking about what we undertaking as the New Testament which creates a kind of circular argument - ie. scripture is 'inspired' because it says so in scripture. We do not all agree with the statement that "The Bible is factually true and completely consistent."
Although we didn't think every single verse in the Bible contained useful instructions etc. we did feel that sometimes we are surprised by how some passages are understood by different people. For example some groups have found the genealogies very significant as in their culture it signifies authority.
We thought about how we can approach scripture in different ways which don't necessarily invalidate each other. For example the story of Abraham and Isaac can be seen as being about how Abraham was obedient to God and showed great faith, it could be seen as a foreshadowing of Jesus' sacrifice and it could also be seen as a condemnation of child/human sacrifice (not an exhaustive list!).
Other examples of conflict in the Bible. Paul and Barnabas had a strong disagreement - perhaps this is an example of how not to do it? Philemon and his slave Onesimus; is perhaps saying something about how relationships in Christ transcend all other relationships, ie. slave and master. Jesus suggested that anger was at the route disagreement. Matt 5.22
Ultimately we all saw the Bible as important and 'useful' but were all too aware that it could be misused and that people would always 'read' it differently.
2 Timothy 3.16-17 "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work"We looked at this passage in other translations and some used the term 'God breathed' which we liked. This is related to the word 'inspired'. This seemed to be rather poetic language.
The passage says that scripture is 'useful', some of us felt that this was not a particularly strong word. It does not seem to preclude finding other things 'useful' in addition. Some of us felt that some Christians had put too much weight on this short passage and that a doctrine of infallibility was not really deducible from this passage. We noted that Paul in writing this is clearly not talking about what we undertaking as the New Testament which creates a kind of circular argument - ie. scripture is 'inspired' because it says so in scripture. We do not all agree with the statement that "The Bible is factually true and completely consistent."
Although we didn't think every single verse in the Bible contained useful instructions etc. we did feel that sometimes we are surprised by how some passages are understood by different people. For example some groups have found the genealogies very significant as in their culture it signifies authority.
We thought about how we can approach scripture in different ways which don't necessarily invalidate each other. For example the story of Abraham and Isaac can be seen as being about how Abraham was obedient to God and showed great faith, it could be seen as a foreshadowing of Jesus' sacrifice and it could also be seen as a condemnation of child/human sacrifice (not an exhaustive list!).
Other examples of conflict in the Bible. Paul and Barnabas had a strong disagreement - perhaps this is an example of how not to do it? Philemon and his slave Onesimus; is perhaps saying something about how relationships in Christ transcend all other relationships, ie. slave and master. Jesus suggested that anger was at the route disagreement. Matt 5.22
Ultimately we all saw the Bible as important and 'useful' but were all too aware that it could be misused and that people would always 'read' it differently.
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